一部電腦十開方法
本帖最後由 saxon 於 2010-4-10 12:01 AM 編輯Statement :
．This tutorial is made by me as a guide for all respected
registered users in this forum.
．The following tutorial might enhance our knowledge and also as a reference
for all of us.
．I neither asking users of this forum nor supporting them to use my tutorials
for gaming purpose and as the result, I will not hold any responsibility on this issue.
．No third-party programs will be used, so it will not against the laws.
．It doesn't use any bugs of this game in my tutorial.
．240 hours had been given for users to made negative comments before this tutorial
had been made but no strong comments were given either.
．This tutorial is only privileges for tennyy forum's member.
．There will be none of my business against the reports regarding to this tutorial
as I had discontinued playing this game.
．I am not given for rewards by posting such tutorial
．This tutorial is copyright to me(zex99x) and tennyy forum, other websites or
forum may not perform illegal copies, please kindly visit tennyy forum for seeking information.
．Without my permission, please don’t either edit or forward this tutorial.
．Please dont forward！
Terms and Agreements :
．Users will held all the responsible for their computer's software
or hardware damages which might caused by my tutorial.
．Users held their responsible for national laws for their works.
．No responsibility will be held by me for companies and user complaints.
．User held their responsibility from the moment they viewed this tutorial.
．I have rights to modify my post include terms and agreements, statement etc.
聲明:
．本人為本論壇所有會員提供此方法, 目的是告訴大家此方法, 作為大家參考的資料,
也作為大家學習的管道.
．本人為本論壇所有會員提供此方法, 但無給予鼓勵, 要求, 甚至要大家去用在遊戲方面,
因此本人不負所有責任.
．此方法無依靠第三方軟件, 無修改程式, 無外掛, 因此無觸法該遊戲法律條文.
．此方法并非使用遊戲漏洞進行遊戲.
．在發這個方法, 本人足足給了10天時間本論壇會員給出足夠抗議的理由,
但得到的結果只有1人輕微抗議.
．此方法只有本論壇會員獨享.
．本人已經不再玩此遊戲, 任和有關此遊戲的報告等與本人無關.
．本人發此方法, 不為一分錢而發.
．所有版權歸本人(zex99x)和tennyy論壇所有, 其他網站/使用者一律不得轉載,
請瀏覽本論壇獲得資料.
．此資料未經過本人同意, 請勿擅自修改, 轉貼.
．請勿轉帖！
協議與條件 :
．對於使用此方法導致電腦配件發生故障, 使用者必須親自付完所有責任.
．若使用者使用此方法在於不合法的地方, 使用者需承擔所有法律責任.
．所有有關遊戲公司,或抗議者的語言不負起任何責任,行動等.
．使用者從決定查看此貼的那一刻起就承擔起所有責任.
．本人絕對有權利對本帖子作出修改, 包括協議與條件, 聲明等.
請認識自己電腦的能力才作出十開設定
硬件搭配效果 : (至少 | 最高-電腦極限)
1G RAM (sigle 1G or 512mb on dual channel) : 雙開 | 三開
1.5G RAM (single mode) : 三開 | 五開
2G RAM (1G dual channel) : 五開 | 七開
3G RAM (single channel or 4x 1GB RAM on dual channel/XP 32bit x86) : 十開 | 十三開
4G RAM(64 bits XP) : 十五以上 | 二十開
OC'ed 4G RAM(XP x64) : 二十以上
OC'ed 8G RAM(Only for XP x64) : 五十以上
硬件搭配效果 : (至少 | 最高-電腦極限)
全部官方驅動器Ati Graphic Cards : 雙開 | 三開
經過使用第三方驅動器的高性能Ati Graphic Cards : 雙開 | 四十開
低Nvidia Graphic Cards : 雙開 | 四開
中Nvidia Graphic Cards : 雙開 | 十五開
高Nvidia Graphic Cards : 雙開 | 三十開
硬件搭配效果 :(至少 | 最高-電腦極限)
單核心 : 雙開
雙核心 2.0ghz : 雙開 | 十五開
雙核心 3.0ghz : 雙開 | 三十開
四核心 2.0ghz : 雙開 | 二十五開
八核心 : -infinite
顯示卡 :
低 7300GT, 7600GS, 8600GS 或以下
中 7600GTS, 8600GTS, 8800GS 或以下
高 7950GT, 8800GT, 9600GT 或以上
目前最高 8800 ULTRA, ATI 3870x2, 9800GX2
搭配計算方法例子 :
2G RAM : 五開 | 七開
中Nvidia Graphic Cards : 雙開 | 十五開
雙核心 2.0ghz : 雙開 | 十五開
(取得全部最低"至少"和"最高")
計算結果 :五開 | 七開
結論 : 這部電腦最低可以五開至七開
效果演示
該部進行十開的電腦 :
OS (系統) : Windows XP x86 32 bits SP2
CPU (中央处理器) : AMD Dual Core 3800+ x2 2.20GHz(OC'ed 超频)
Motherboard (母板) : Abit KN9S
RAM (內存) : Kingston 1GB DDR2 667MHz(4x - 2x Dual channel 732.600MHz OC'ed 超频)
Graphic Card (顯示卡) : Inno3D 7600GT 256mb GDDR3 (540MHz / 700MHz)
Hard Disk (硬碟) : Hitachi 7200RPM 160GB SATAII
Power Supply Unit (電源供應器) : Cooler Master Extreme Power 430 (V2.0) RS-430-PCAR
成功十開的效果 : 放大圖片
http://aycu14.webshots.com/image/47173/2004958836199739313_rs.jpg
本帖最後由 saxon 於 2010-4-9 11:49 PM 編輯
[----------WARNING---------]
It’s recommended to acquired good computer skills
Shall never follow my tutorial if you don’t own related knowledge, expertise were required
[----------警告----------]
建議使用者需擁有對電腦一定程度的了解
沒專業人士陪同下,絕對不要作出嘗試此帖子的方法
OS Requirement (系統需求) :
1). Windows XP 32 bits x86 SP2
2). Windows XP 64 bits x64 SP2
Hardware Requirement (配件需求) :
1). Motherboard with Nvidia Chipset (擁有Nvidia芯片的母板)
2). A basic Dual-Core based CPU (至少擁有雙核心運作的主機)
3). GPU with Nvidia branded (Nvidia牌子顯示卡)
4). 10GB and onwards IDE/ SATA I/ SATAII HDD space (擁有尚未使用的10GB或以上空間
4). 的IDE/SATA I/SATA II硬碟)
5). Good CPU air-flow (電腦擁有良好通風系統)
6). Good PSU and stable electric current (良好穩定電壓)
Software Required (軟件需求) :
1). Fraps
Drivers Requirement (驅動器需求) :
1). Latest Nvidia NForce
2). Latest Nvidia Forceware
3). AMD dual-core optimizer (AMD64 X2 only / Win XP 32bits x86 SP2)
References :
Nvidia official Website(Nvidia官網) : Follow this link
Nvidia NForce and Forceware download area(NForce和Forceware下載區) : Follow this link
Fraps official websites(Fraps官網) : Follow this link
Fraps latest version download link(Fraps最新程式下載點) : Download Now!
AMD official website(AMD官網) : Follow this link
AMD dual core optimizer(AMD雙核心補丁下載點) : Download Now!
Installation Guide :
安裝攻略
Nvidia NForce :Follow this link
Selecting NForce
選擇NForce
http://aycu21.webshots.com/image/44580/2002015439694476149_rs.jpg
Make sure your NForce is supported or exactly matched for your motherboard requirements
確保所選擇的NForce支援你的母板
http://aycu06.webshots.com/image/48205/2002098137626994748_rs.jpg
Choosing links for downloading
選擇下載點
http://aycu05.webshots.com/image/44644/2002098598037282224_rs.jpg
Accept the license agreement
接受協議
http://aycu14.webshots.com/image/46973/2002096775267653173_rs.jpg
Save the file
下載檔案入電腦
http://aycu12.webshots.com/image/47251/2002085336146470113_rs.jpg
Nvidia Forceware :Follow this link
Choose your GPU Forceware
選擇顯示卡的Forceware
http://aycu05.webshots.com/image/45764/2002098975107199461_rs.jpg
Accept the agreement and start download
接受協議進行下載
http://aycu07.webshots.com/image/47886/2002022290177177682_rs.jpg
Save the file
下載檔案進入電腦
http://aycu33.webshots.com/image/44752/2002045696414846048_rs.jpg
[ 本帖最後由 zex99x 於 2008-3-8 01:27 AM 編輯 ] 本帖最後由 saxon 於 2010-4-9 11:51 PM 編輯
[----------WARNING---------]
It’s recommended to acquired good computer skills
Shall never follow my tutorial if you don’t own related knowledge, expertise were required
[----------警告----------]
建議使用者需擁有對電腦一定程度的了解
沒專業人士陪同下,絕對不要作出嘗試此帖子的方法
Notes for this part (重要事項) :
1). Increase the virtual memory of windows 2000/XP/2003 is ideal
for insufficient physical RAM
(内存不足的電腦,增強windows 2000/XP/2003虚拟内存是最好的選擇)
2). Virtual RAM is also called as pagefile
(虚拟内存也被稱呼為虛擬內存頁面文件)
3). Virtual RAM using Hard Disk Drive as the resource for the pagefile
(虛擬頁面文件使用硬碟的空間作為资源)
4). Even physical RAM is 4GB, increasing pagefile value for opening 10 windows ID
to operate 108Online is required
(就算電腦内存已達到4GB, 虛擬頁面文件功能也依然需要開啟)
5). To see your machine's pagefile activity, you can view through "Task Manager"
in Performance tab
(使用任务管理工具查看虛擬頁面文件的運作)
6). Changing the value of your pagefile needs to be caution
(更改虛擬頁面文件數值需小心)
7). Make sure there are enaugh space in your hard disk for pagefile usage
(確定硬碟有足夠的空間才採取更改虛擬頁面文件數值的決定)
8). Minimum and maximum virtual RAM value must be set higher then your physical RAM
(虛擬內存的最小和最大值一定要高過電腦的內存值)
Managing the virtual RAM value (虛擬內存值參考) :
First of all, you need to investigate available spaces on your pimary drive.
(首先,你需要自行檢驗你硬碟(虛擬內存使用的硬碟)的空間,確保足夠)
Hard Disk Space Requirement : Initial(MB) | Maximum(MB) | Your computer physical RAM
硬碟空間需要 : 最少(MB) | 最多(MB) | 電腦的內存
16GB : 4608 | 8192 | 3.0GB / 3.5GB / 4.0GB (Can hold 15 IDs to 30 IDs)
10GB : 3072 | 4608 | 2.5GB
9GB : 2560 | 4096 | 2.0GB (Can hold 10 IDs to 20 IDs)
8GB : 2048 | 3584 | 1.5GB
6GB : 1500 | 3000 | 1.0GB (Can Hold 5 IDs to 10 IDs)
3GB : 768 | 1536 | 512MB
About 108Online.bin to 108Online.exe (關于程式名的更改) :
1). 108Online.bin is not suitable for nVidia graphic custom settings
(默認的108Online.bin 是不適合使用在nVidia 驅動器的圖像更改)
2). 108Online.exe will be replaced for perfect solution
(108Online.exe 程式名字的更改能夠解決問題)
3). 108Online.exe will enable us to fast lauching the game without updating
(新的名字也能夠讓我們快速進入遊戲)
Featuring Guide (教學):
Computer Performance
電腦效能
Right Click on "My Computer" then select "Propertise"
右點"My Computer"然後選擇"propertise"
http://aycu24.webshots.com/image/46583/2000713977609917704_rs.jpg
Click the "Advanced" tab and select "Settings" for performance menu
點"Advanced"選項和"settings"
http://aycu06.webshots.com/image/48485/2000778723230550681_rs.jpg
Click the "Advanced" tab
點"Advanced"選項
http://aycu14.webshots.com/image/49693/2000737502029127059_rs.jpg
Change the virtual memory settings
更改虛擬內存設定
http://aycu23.webshots.com/image/49342/2000799255270080687_rs.jpg
Write the suitable value size for your system requirements (refer to my guide)
寫入適合的數值 (根據我寫出的教學)
http://aycu34.webshots.com/image/48673/2000722465287921684_rs.jpg
Apply the settings
更新電腦設定
http://aycu29.webshots.com/image/47108/2000796929525538460_rs.jpg
Restart your PC
從新驅動電腦
http://aycu10.webshots.com/image/49049/2000779258056255993_rs.jpg
Game Client Setup
Update game client to ensure u running the latest version
更新遊戲,確保使用遊戲最新版本
http://aycu24.webshots.com/image/46383/2004771637018943639_rs.jpg
After update, exit the game
更新完畢後退出遊戲
http://aycu40.webshots.com/image/47399/2004741188751897509_rs.jpg
Locate the game installation directory
尋找該遊戲的安裝目錄
http://aycu37.webshots.com/image/48956/2004770467916328632_rs.jpg
Copy 108Online.bin
複製108Online.bin
http://aycu32.webshots.com/image/47391/2004733323372468352_rs.jpg
Paste it in the same directory
複製在同一個目錄下
http://aycu36.webshots.com/image/49835/2004786504453868180_rs.jpg
Rename Copy of 108Online.bin
從新命名該已經被拷貝過的108Online.bin
http://aycu23.webshots.com/image/48262/2004753085048601916_rs.jpg
Rename to 108Online.exe
將它命名為108Online.exe
http://aycu20.webshots.com/image/49939/2004783877938698721_rs.jpg
Do correctly and you will see this
設定正確的效果
http://aycu40.webshots.com/image/47759/2004731346994992164_rs.jpg
[ 本帖最後由 zex99x 於 2008-3-30 11:16 PM 編輯 ] 本帖最後由 saxon 於 2010-4-9 11:58 PM 編輯
[----------WARNING---------]
It’s recommended to acquired good computer skills
Shall never follow my tutorial if you don’t own related knowledge, expertise were required
[----------警告----------]
建議使用者需擁有對電腦一定程度的了解
沒專業人士陪同下,絕對不要作出嘗試此帖子的方法
Notes for this part (重要事項) :
Nvidia graphic settings for 108Online (顯示卡設定參考) :
Settings below shows lowest configuration which suits for all type of graphic cards.
以下參考設定為最低,適合全部顯示卡達到最順暢的效果
You may change some settings if you understand the functions to get better image quality.
若對設定有所認識,您可以自行更改,達到你所想要的圖像效果.
Anisotropic filtering - Off
Antialiasing - Gamma correction Off
Antialiasing - Setting None
Antialiasing - Transparency Off
Conformant texture clamp - Use hardware
Error reporting - Off
Extension limit - Off
Force mipmaps - None
Multi-display/mixed-GPU acceleration - Single display performance mode
Stereo - Display mode - Use vertical interlace monitor
Texture filtering - Anisotropic mip filter optimization substitutes point - On
Texture filtering - Anisotropic sample optimization - On
Texture filtering - Negative LOD bias - Clamp
Texture filtering - Quality - Quality
Texture filtering - Trilinear optimization - On
Threaded optimization - Off
Triple buffering - On
Vertical sync - Force on
Featuring Guide (教學):
Nvidia Display Driver Configuration
顯示卡驅動器的設定
Click "Start" and goto "Control Panel"
點"Start"然後去"Control Panel"
http://tinypic.info/files/zrqwvq0ljt6wl8qav1v2.png
Switch to classic view
更換去"Classic View"
http://tinypic.info/files/tfscloiv6yw75xr63qq2.png
Click the "NVIDIA Control Panel"
點"NVIDIA Control Panel"
http://tinypic.info/files/i6jhdpyakqztcbbpkim3.png
From the left panel, select "Manage 3D Setting"
在左邊的框選擇"Manage 3D Setting"
http://tinypic.info/files/7hh7e7kb8988r7ta6ux3.png
From the right panel, click on "Program Settings" and click "add"
在右邊的框點"Program Settings"然後選"add"
http://tinypic.info/files/7xjxj0iov1hslpln2hnv.png
Find your previously created "108Online.exe" and "open" it
尋找你之前拷貝出的"108Online.exe"然後開啟它
http://tinypic.info/files/o5k2n57h1hf5ju05zhnt.png
Select "108Online.exe" and custom edit the graphic settings according to the reference i provided
選擇"108Online.exe"然後根據參考列表作出相關設定
http://tinypic.info/files/82jfl2313vu3obph5g89.png
Apply the settings to save the configurations
啟用新的設定
http://tinypic.info/files/3hj3vmhc33bg0zv4otnt.png
User Account Creation
創造用戶
Click Start and goto "Control Panel"
點"Start"然後去"Control Panel"
http://tinypic.info/files/j1g628a5nmzjkg5s1vvb.png
Click the "User Accounts"
點"User Accounts"
http://tinypic.info/files/30iuq6sdut9u2qgldju0.png
Create a new account
開通新的用戶
http://tinypic.info/files/ig11sk0ncpwhqrvi08cl.png
Write your desire name
寫下您喜歡的名字
http://tinypic.info/files/yjrkh5mk1nvbaa7z0fnw.png
Ensure "administrator" is selected and proceed creating account
確保"administrator"已被選擇
http://tinypic.info/files/gwc1bj5qzt462vm6znsn.png
Example of multi user had been created
已經開通多用戶的樣本
http://tinypic.info/files/w13soo6370m7ejg2lxf0.png
Make sure u reboot your pc
確保您從新驅動電腦
http://tinypic.info/files/p538d3i6hmo1tqxwgcag.png
[ 本帖最後由 zex99x 於 2008-5-9 01:27 PM 編輯 ] 本帖最後由 saxon 於 2010-4-9 11:56 PM 編輯
[----------WARNING---------]
It’s recommended to acquired good computer skills
Shall never follow my tutorial if you don’t own related knowledge, expertise were required
[----------警告----------]
建議使用者需擁有對電腦一定程度的了解
沒專業人士陪同下,絕對不要作出嘗試此帖子的方法
Notes for this part (重要事項) :
這是未完成作品
Featuring Guide (教學):
Launching Multi User
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Select the user u wish for multi-user operating mode
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http://tinypic.info/files/80bli2hhfj98t8pxqb4y.png
Wait for loading
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http://tinypic.info/files/g72609658xv99w4ksae0.png
After the selected user fully loaded, launch the task manager "CTRL+ALT+DEL"
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http://tinypic.info/files/px0upbeg86zjcdjfokm5.png
Goto "user" tab and "maximize" the window
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http://tinypic.info/files/ttiaoylskqhb1okhc682.png
Goto "Start"
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http://tinypic.info/files/eyvr5glbo1igyidc8vo7.png
Select Log Off
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http://tinypic.info/files/dfd8ehoii6p830cts5ra.png
Select "Switch User"
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http://tinypic.info/files/zqrv3l5wwxrvzqxumek3.png
Redo the steps above to open all the users u need
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http://tinypic.info/files/80bli2hhfj98t8pxqb4y.png
Fast User Switching
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From "Windows Task Manager" at "user" tab, right-click on a user u wish to switch
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http://tinypic.info/files/l521ppbq7g53gc1eb027.png
[ 本帖最後由 zex99x 於 2008-5-6 01:28 PM 編輯 ] 本帖最後由 saxon 於 2010-4-9 11:57 PM 編輯
[----------WARNING---------]
It’s recommended to acquired good computer skills
Shall never follow my tutorial if you don’t own related knowledge, expertise were required
[----------警告----------]
建議使用者需擁有對電腦一定程度的了解
沒專業人士陪同下,絕對不要作出嘗試此帖子的方法
Notes for this part (重要事項) :
這是未完成作品
Featuring Guide (教學):
Graphic FPS
*中文字暫無*
Launch the "Fraps" program
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http://tinypic.info/files/8rqh9hy7mgcmaf6cr0xy.png
Minimize it
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http://tinypic.info/files/kpjz3523xg2htb720kin.png
Fast Game Client Launching Speed
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Send "108Online.exe" to desktop for creating a shortcut
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http://tinypic.info/files/nzjmc5p1gtnwbspyg98r.png
Go to Desktop and "cut" it
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http://tinypic.info/files/zwlx22lss1f0tgi7tdur.png
Paste at "All Users" in Desktop directory
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http://tinypic.info/files/ee1nmod047cmt5b2sf1z.png
This is the result
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http://tinypic.info/files/mbdrnqivnpjtr82kiq8k.png
Rename it into "108Online"
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http://tinypic.info/files/lsuibtq1ocicjz9lmqio.png
Go to Desktop and you will see this on all users
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http://tinypic.info/files/ywalhv620ca8i6isabpw.png
Client Configuration
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Launch the game using "108Online" icon from desktop
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http://tinypic.info/files/ywalhv620ca8i6isabpw.png
The number "60" shows your game speed, goto option
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http://tinypic.info/files/agpvbueb5s1ffokhxeqm.png
Ensure it is 800x600, OpenGL, 16BIT. DO NOT use vertical sync from there, then click "Apply"
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http://tinypic.info/files/1w5nxph7fvlxp9v6322f.png
Turn off the all audio off, then click "Apply"
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http://tinypic.info/files/kjt13sr50g4xrsfs860j.png
Make sure all visual effects had meet the lowest setting, then click "Apply"
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http://tinypic.info/files/gh6gcqkdmz9o0ed12hi3.png
After that, exit the client
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http://tinypic.info/files/h7k2z3zj9rnyibpk4prc.png
Starting Multi User
Re-open the game and log in untill you reach character selection screen
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http://tinypic.info/files/0vwcvgptccj2ut269qng.png
Ensure your Windows Task Manager is maximized, DO NOT minimize the game, then click on Windows Task Manager
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http://tinypic.info/files/qqdu1ltez1lnlwlwua5r.png
Goto "user" tab
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http://tinypic.info/files/2tpuh931zsoio7rt8vlt.png
Right-click another user u wish to open the game and connect it
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http://tinypic.info/files/ilyutp9jge9b02sae6pz.png
SFrom here, go to performance tab
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http://tinypic.info/files/8qzz1ueep7289dd3q8jf.png
Ensure your CPU usage is not 100%
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http://tinypic.info/files/o8u1ibqux1n2jp996lja.png
Goto Desktop and re-open the game again
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http://tinypic.info/files/dukqbf809dv76l5qd0h5.png
Log in as usual untill u reach character selection screen
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http://tinypic.info/files/8wqknu5xncypd3wl2jmi.png
After that ensure game is not minimized and task manager is maximized
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http://tinypic.info/files/qqdu1ltez1lnlwlwua5r.png
Then switch to another user again
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http://tinypic.info/files/ilyutp9jge9b02sae6pz.png
Go to performance tab and ensure it is not 100% CPU usage
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http://tinypic.info/files/9hxiwvdvsd5cezmpg7h2.png
Redo the steps above to open all the users u need (Ensure game is not minimized and task manager is maximized)
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http://tinypic.info/files/ilyutp9jge9b02sae6pz.png
Fast User Log Off
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From "Windows Task Manager" at "user" tab, right-click on a user u wish to Log Off
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http://tinypic.info/files/zl83bvkrxhrcfwjcb4x8.png
[ 本帖最後由 zex99x 於 2008-5-6 02:17 PM 編輯 ] 本帖最後由 saxon 於 2010-4-9 11:56 PM 編輯
問題 : FPS 到底是甚麼
解答 : 每秒傳輸幀數(每秒畫面更新數量)
解答 : 一般Vsync是保持在60,75,80的數目. 速度方面15普通,30順暢,45最順暢,60以上無法以肉眼看到分別
問題 : 為何電腦會出現藍屏死機(Blue Screen of Death).
解答 : 硬件過熱,主要是硬碟,顯示卡,RAM 和CPU 又或電源不足所導致.
解決 : 在換視窗的同時確保"windows task manager"在前面而遊戲在背後並且不要將之最小化.
問題 : 為何開不到遊戲,顯示遊戲程式已經過舊需要更新等
解答 : 因為您使用的108Online.exe 不會自動更新
解決 : 把目前的108Online.exe 刪除,再使用普通的遊戲程式更新遊戲, 更新後從新拷貝108Online.dat
問題 : 為何更換別的用戶發現遊戲整個變成白銀幕
解答 : 若使用目前的用戶太久,別的用戶就跟不上速度而更新不了畫面
解決 : 一小時更換用戶組一次,更換的時間多過10秒就行
問題 : 在別的用戶遊戲變成白銀幕時,遊戲會不會中斷
解答 : 看情況,一般上遊戲會繼續進行,只是畫面不會再更新
解決 : 一小時更換用戶組一次,更換的時間多過10秒就行
[ 本帖最後由 zex99x 於 2008-5-9 03:48 PM 編輯 ] :75; 唔好意思~~~之前想坐沙發嘅..不過以為4個格你夠曬先發...點知原來仲要嘅~
有需要嘅話叫版主刪佐個貼佢..我唔介意.
__________
多謝飛雲z~
[ 本帖最後由 andyhidy 於 2008-3-10 01:16 PM 編輯 ] 支持
支持
支持
:58; :77; 其實我想問下點解一定要nvedia嘅?ati嘅唔得咩?一陣得閒可唔可以解釋下?